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Podcast title Technically Legal
Website URL https://tlpodcast.com
Description Technically Legal is a podcast about legal tech and innovation in the legal industry. Each episode a legal "mover and shaker" is interviewed-- legal innovators on the forefront of changes to the delivery and consumption of legal services. The podcast is hosted by Chad Main, an attorney and founder of Percipient, a tech-enabled legal services provider. Chad launched Percipient on the belief that when technology is leveraged correctly, it makes attorneys more effective.
Updated Wed, 21 Aug 2019 20:07:22 +0000
Image Technically Legal
Category Business

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1. Episode 23: Jim Doppke on the Ethics of Legal Tech (and the Duty to Supervise Robots)
https://tlpodcast.com/episode-... download (audio/mpeg, 39.62Mb)


Legal ethics attorney Jim Doppke discusses the impact that legal tech and legal innovation have on the Rules of Professional Conduct and other rules that govern how lawyers practice law.

Jim explains how Model Rules of Professional Conduct 1.1 (Lawyer’s Duty of Competence) and  5.3 (Responsibilities Regarding Nonlawyer Assistance) are implicated by advances in legal technology and legal innovation. A comment to Rule 1.1 (and adopted by most states) says that as part of a lawyer’s duty of competence, lawyers must stay abreast of changes in technology.

Rule 5.3 states that lawyers must actively supervise “non-lawyer” assistance they engage to help out on legal matters. This is significant, because certain legal tech, like artificial intelligence (AI), is really non-lawyer “assistance.”  So, as Jim points out, if lawyers are going to use AI, they must supervise the training of the algorithms to ensure accuracy.

In a similar vein, Jim points out that as the use of ALSPs (alternative legal service providers) increases, there too is another situation in which lawyers must supervise work done by those who may not be attorneys.

In the legal tech founder segment, we talk to Jeffrey Eschbach, the founder of Page Vault. Page Vault software permits users to capture webpages and social media for use in legal matters. The captures are forensically sound, delivered in pdf format and include vital metadata strengthening evidentiary value. 

2. Episode 22: Kate Gaudry on Lawyers (Really) Using Big Data to Help Clients
https://tlpodcast.com/episode-... download (audio/mpeg, 36.24Mb)


For Episode 22 we headed to Washington D.C. to talk to patent attorney Kate Gaudry about using big data to help legal clients.

Much of Kate’s data analysis focuses on allowance rates for individual patent examiners (the percentage of patents they approve) and also for the “art units” they work in.

We also talk to Kate about how mathematical models like game theory can be used to make decisions about pursuing or abandoning patent applications.

Finally, Kate explains that before attorneys start collecting data and using technology to analyze it, they need to take a step back, look at the whole process and figure out which questions really need answered and identify the ones for which data may provide insight.

In this episode we also talk to Lawcadia founder Warwick Walsh. The Lawcadia platform is an end-to-end matter and spend management system built specifically for in-house legal teams.
Check out episode page.

3. Episode 21- Dave Rogers on Hype Technology
https://tlpodcast.com/episode-... download (audio/mpeg, 37.66Mb)


In Episode 21 we talk to Dave Rogers, Chief Technology Officer for the Ministry of Justice in the United Kingdom. (Similar to the U.S. Department of Justice).

Dave explains how falling in love with “hype technology” (the hot new tech of the moment) may actually hinder an organization’s efforts to innovate.

Dave also points out that legacy technology can be problematic for organizations large and small. He refers to this as the “toxicity of legacy”. Toxicity caused by older software and systems that are poorly supported, hard to update, poorly documented, non-compliant or inefficient.

We also talk to Crawford Appleby, founder of rulings.law. A searchable database of tentative rulings issued by Los Angeles Superior Court judges.

4. Episode 20 Jerry Ting on Legal Tech Looking Outside Legal Tech
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In Episode 20 we talk to Evisort founder Jerry Ting about his company and also about improving legal technology by looking outside of legal tech.

Jerry founded Evisort while studying at Harvard Law and it was there that he started looking outside of the legal world to build his business. He applied to and was accepted by the Harvard Innovation Lab to help launch the company. By the time he graduated Harvard, Jerry and his team already had customers and had raised money for the company.

In this episode’s legal tech founder segment, we talk to Andrew Klein, founder of Reynen Court,  a services automation platform that uses containerization to enable law firms to deploy computing applications without exposing firm or client content to outside computing environments.

5. Episode 19: Christian Auty and Zach Smolinski on Blockchain Redux
https://tlpodcast.com/episode-... download (audio/mpeg, 37.09Mb)


Lawyers Zach Smolinski and Christian Auty return for Episode 19. Like last time, they discuss blockchain technology and its impact on the practice of law. Zach is with Smolinski Rosario Law and Christian with the Much firm.

We talk about what’s changed in the blockchain world since they were on the show in 2017. Both agree that regulators have stepped up enforcement and the public is less enthralled about the technology. However, both are still big supporters and excited to see people getting serious about building sustainable blockchain businesses.

In this episode’s legal tech founder segment, we talk to Basha Rubin and Mirra Levitt the founders of Priori Legal. The company makes it easy for companies to find, hire and manage outside counsel without the costly infrastructure of a firm.

6. Episode 18: Greg Siskind on Automation for Law Departments and Law Firms
https://tlpodcast.com/episode-... download (audio/mpeg, 37.17Mb)


The focus of this episode is automation of legal processes by law firms and in-house legal teams. We talk to immigration lawyer Greg Siskind. He and his firm automate both client facing and internal legal processes. As we learn, automation limits errors, automates expertise, saves time and is good for marketing.

In our legal tech founder segment, talk to Tom Dreyfus, CEO and co-founder of Josef, an automation platform helping lawyers create legal chatbots.

7. Episode 17: Stephen Kane on Online Dispute Resolution
https://tlpodcast.com/episode-... download (audio/mpeg, 33.94Mb)


In Episode 17 we talk about online dispute resolution with Stephen Kane, the founder of Fairclaims, a platform that helps people resolve legal claims online.

ODR has been around since the 1990s, but really took off when companies like Ebay and Amazon started to use it to resolve customer complaints and disputes.

As Stephen explains, many types of disputes are amenable to ODR and courts across the globe are starting to use it.

In our Legal Tech Founder Segment, we talk to Tucker Cottingham, the CEO and co-founder of Lawyaw, a document automation and assembly tool for lawyers.

8. Episode 16: Vishal Agnihotri on Knowledge Management for Law Firms & Legal Departments
https://tlpodcast.com/episode-... download (audio/mpeg, 29.55Mb)


Our guest this time is Vishal Agnihotri, Chief Knowledge Officer (or “CKO”) for Hinshaw & Culbertson. As CKO, Vishal is responsible for the firm’s knowledge management programs. 

Vishal has a great definition for KM: the ability to identify critical knowledge within an organization and then leveraging it to serve up at the right time for the right purpose.

Vishal explains that law firms are great candidates for knowledge management and law firm CKOs must work closely with the firm’s Chief Information Officers and Chief Marketing Officers.

For law firms and legal departments interested in implementing a knowledge management program, Vishal says the first step is determining what constitutes “critical knowledge” and to use tools to organize that critical information. She suggests a good starting point is a collaboration platform to share knowledge and pose questions and to also utilize a good intranet for the organization. 

We also talk to Jeff Kerr, the CEO of CaseFleet. A case chronology and management tool for lawyers that helps attorneys review evidence, organize facts, and identify trends in legal matters. Jeff also points out that CaseFleet is also used by investigative reporters and expert witnesses.

9. Episode 15: Keith Maziarek on Pricing Legal Services
https://tlpodcast.com/episode-... download (audio/mpeg, 33.43Mb)


In this episode, we sit down with Keith Maziarek, Director of Pricing and Legal Project Management for the law firm Katten Muchin Rosenman.

Keith explains that law firms are adding pricing positions because of economic pressures and client demands. Clients are demanding changes in the way they are billed (AFAs or “alternative fee arrangements”) and also demanding that law firms become more efficient.

Keith also explains how project management and pricing legal services go hand in hand because to properly forecast the cost of a legal project, a thorough understanding of how the work will be done and what resources are needed is necessary.

Keith notes that fixed fees are not the only type of AFA out there. He discusses fee collars and success based legal fees. Keith explains how pricing fits into law firm marketing efforts and why sometimes it is best not to bid on work at all if it is not a good fit for the law firm.

In our Legal Founder Segment we talk to Kevin Miller, the CEO of Legal Sifter, an app that uses artificial intelligence to help people negotiate contracts with speed and providing advice from company leaders and lawyers in seconds.

10. Episode 14: Barry Solomon on Legal Marketing and Technology
https://tlpodcast.com/episode-... download (audio/mpeg, 30.79Mb)


In Episode 14 we talk to Barry Solomon, lawyer, former BigLaw CMO (Chief Marketing Officer) and current President of Foundation Software Group. Foundation develops experience management software for law firms.

Barry distinguishes marketing from business development and explains how the two should work together. Barry says the key to good business development is to really listen to clients about their needs.

Barry also discusses the benefits of using of technology to gather data and track marketing metrics. He points out that much of the data helpful to improve marketing efforts is often found in software law firms already use (such as billing and timekeeping software, matter management software and the like).

Barry’s tip for law firms wanting to get serious about marketing, but still testing the waters, is to have two programs in place: 1) a program to gather client feedback; and 2) a program in place to train lawyers how to develop business.


We also talk with Daniel Goldstein, the Founder of Trust & Will, an online tool to create, edit, store, and share a trust and will.

11. Episode 13: Justine Gottshall on Data Privacy Laws
https://tlpodcast.com/episode-... download (audio/mpeg, 35.45Mb)


For Lucky Episode 13, we talk to Justine Gottshall about data privacy laws. Specifically, about the GDPR and California’s Consumer Privacy Act.

Justine is a partner at InfoLaw Group, where she counsels clients on data privacy, technology, information governance, consumer protection, and digital marketing issues. Justine began her career as a Washington D.C. litigator and was involved in the FTC’s first data privacy investigation.

In this podcast, Justine explains to whom the GDPR and CCPA apply and the protections the laws give consumers. Justine also explains that law firms are not immune from data privacy laws.

We also talk to former bankruptcy attorney Morris Massel about the company he founded, CourtSolutions, The company provides an efficient way for judges and lawyers to make telephonic court appearances.

12. Episode 12: Jae Um on the New Normal for Law Firms & Calling BS on "Because Lawyers..."
https://tlpodcast.com/episode-... download (audio/mpeg, 36.08Mb)


In Episode 12, we talk to Jae Um, founder of Six Parsecs, an insights company for the legal industry.

The conversation with Jae is wide ranging. We discuss Han Solo, the true distance of a parsec and how she came up with the name for her company.

Jae explains that a “new normal” confronts many law firms and discusses how they must now compete for business post-2008 recession.

Jae also talks about how “data viz” (or data visualization) helps explain information and why it is not helpful to use the “Because Lawyers” excuse as the reason change does not always come quickly to the legal industry.

In Episode 12, we also talk to Jason Boehmig, attorney and founder of Ironclad. A contract management and automation platform.

13. Episode 11: Lucy Bassli on the Legal Ecosystem & Unicorn Lawyers
https://tlpodcast.com/lucy-bas... download (audio/mpeg, 30.83Mb)


In Episode 11 we talk to Lucy Bassli founder of InnoLegal Services and Chief Legal Strategist at Law Geex.

Lucy started her career in Big Law and ultimately landed a job in Microsoft’s legal department where she served as Assistant General Counsel. 

Lucy left Microsoft in 2017 and started InnoLegal Services–part law firm and part consultancy–where she helps law firms and law departments develop new ways to deliver and receive legal services.

In her role as Chief Legal Strategist for Law Geex, Lucy advises on the use of AI in contracting and product roadmaps, consults with customers, and assists with go-to-market strategies.

During our talk, Lucy explains who the players are in the modern legal ecosystem and why all of them should work together. Lucy also explains what it means to be a unicorn lawyer–a lawyer that knows the value of law, process and technology.

In our legal founder segment, we talk to Nehal Madhani, founder of Alt Legal. A docketing system for intellectual property matters.

14. Episode 10: Zach Abramowitz on Legal Tech Trends and Law Firms as Incubators
https://tlpodcast.com/episode-... download (audio/mpeg, 23.38Mb)


In this episode we connect with Zach Abramowitz, lawyer, legal tech writer and entrepreneur. Zach left the practice of law to launch ReplyAll.me, a tool that lets users conduct live conversations and embed them on a website as the conversation unfolds. We talk to Zach about trends in legal tech, how lessons learned by e-discovery software companies helped pave the way for other legal tech apps and why law firms are positioned to develop legal tech software.

In Episode 10, we also talk to Catherine Krow, also an attorney and the founder of Digitory Legal, a cloud based legal budgeting and resource management platform.

15. Gabriel Teninbaum on Legal Tech Education
http://traffic.libsyn.com/tech... download (audio/mpeg, 31.74Mb)


For Episode 9 we visited Gabriel Teninbaum, Director of the Institute on Legal Innovation and Technology and a legal writing professor at Suffolk University School of Law.

Suffolk’s Legal Innovation Institute has three programs: A legal tech concentration for law students, the LIT Lab, and an online legal tech certificate program.

Gabe also developed an called Spaced Repetition that helps law students with their studies and to prepare for the bar exam.

In this episode, we also talk to Rick Merrill, the founder of Gavelytics, an AI powered database containing information about judges, their tendencies and rulings.

16. Episode 8: Angie Hickey on the Benefits of Business People Holding Law Firm Leadership Roles
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In Episode 8, we talk to Angie Hickey, CEO of the Chicago based law firm Levenfeld Pearlstein. Angie discusses the benefits of business people holding leadership positions in law firms.

Angie explains that one of the main benefits of hiring business people to help run law firms is that it permits lawyers to spend more time doing what they are trained to do–practice law.

Angie also points out that when law firms implement business strategies and systems, the client experience is improved.

Angie also discusses why collecting feedback is a must for improvement and that when business minded people get involved with law firms, they might have to push for change lawyers may not always want to make.

We also talk to legal tech founder Michael Chasin about Lexicata, a CRM (customer relationship management) and client intake app designed specifically for law firms. Lexicata helps lawyers stay on top of leads, automate client intake forms and provides analytics and insight into marketing efforts and referral sources so law firms can make better business decisions.

17. Episode 7: Atrium’s Augie Rakow & Max Cantor on Technology First Law Firms
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In Episode 7 we talked to Augie Rakow and Max Cantor of the legal tech startup, Atrium. Augie is one of Atrium’s founders and Max heads up Atrium’s artificial intelligence efforts.

Atrium is actually two companies: Atrium LLP, a law firm focused on providing legal services to start-ups, and Atrium LTS (Legal Technology Services), the company providing operational and technological support to Atrium LLP.

Augie founded Atrium with Justin Kan, a serial entrepreneur, angel investor and former partner at Y Combinator.

The talk with Augie and Max is wide ranging: Augie’s studies at divinity school, Max’s hobby of flying planes, why Atrium was founded and how it differs from the conventional law firm model. Augie and Max also discuss the tech Atrium is developing and their future plans.

In this episode we also talk to Jeremiah Kelman of Everchron, a great collaborative case management platform for litigators.

18. Episiode 6: Casey Flaherty on Tech Competency, Legal Ops and Client Driven Change
http://traffic.libsyn.com/tech... download (audio/mpeg, 29.77Mb)


For Episode 6, we sat down with D. Casey Flaherty at the Legal Tech conference in New York City. 

Casey talked about a few things: how many lawyers struggle to master everyday technology, his experience as corporate counsel and the efforts he took in that role to improve the way company lawyers did their jobs. But, a good chunk of the conversation focused on Casey's belief that inefficiencies in legal service delivery will not change until clients demand change.


In this episode, we also talk to Haley Altman, the founder of Doxly.  A legal transaction management platform used by transactional and M&A lawyers to stay organized when they are working on and closing deals.

19. Episode 5: Ken Grady on Lean Thinking and Law
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In Episode 5 we talk to Ken Grady about lean thinking and the practice of law.

Ken explains that the main goal of lean thinking is to eliminate waste from business processes and that legal work is rife with waste. He also points out that eliminating waste from the practice of law might just free up time for lawyers to do other work, including the pursuit of access to justice initiatives.

Ken is currently a law professor at Michigan State's Legal RnD program and held prior positions in corporate legal departments and law firms.

In this episode, we also talk to Gavin McGrane the founder of PacerPro, a great app that makes it a whole lot easier for attorneys and law firms to stay on top of federal court dockets and pleadings.

Episode Notes.

20. Episode 4: Dennis Garcia on Legal Department Automation, Cybersecurity and Lawyers Use of the Cloud
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In this episode we talk to Microsoft Assistant General Counsel Dennis Garcia about legal department automation, the benefits of cloud computing and steps law firms can take to shore up cybersecurity. Dennis also discusses lawyers’ use of social media.

We also introduce a new segment for the podcast. Starting with this episode, we will include a short interview with a legal tech founder.

We start with Ryan Alshak, a lawyer and the founder of Ping, automated time keeping for attorneys.

21. Episode 3: Kent Zimmermann on Alternative Legal Service Providers
http://traffic.libsyn.com/tech... download (audio/mpeg, 29.06Mb)


In this episode, we speak with Kent Zimmermann about the rise of alternative legal service providers--companies that help clients and attorneys accomplish legal related work such as document review for electronic discovery, or due diligence contract review for corporate mergers and acquisitions.

Kent also talks about law firm mergers. A topic he knows quite a bit about because he is a consultant helping law firms with strategic planning, management consulting, mergers, and marketing.

22. Episode 2: Zach Smolinski & Christian Auty on Blockchain
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In Episode 2 we discuss blockchain technology and its impact on the practice of law with two Chicago lawyers Zach Smolinski and Christian Auty. Zach is with Ziliak Law and Christian with the Much Shelist firm. Both counsel clients on blockchain related matters. 

In this episode Zach and Christian discuss what blockchain technology is, how they became interested in it, and the impact it will have on the practice of law.

Zach is involved in Fin Tank a group working to grow Chicago's blockchain community, and Christian authors the Digital Lawyer blog.

Episode Credits:

Theme Music: Home Base (Instrumental Version) by TA2MI

Audio Clip: excerpt from 14 Carrot Rabbit, Copyright 1952 Warner Brothers

23. Jim Doppke on MRPC 1.1
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In our inaugural episode, legal ethics attorney Jim Doppke of Chicago's Robinson Law Group discusses changes to the Rules of Professional Conduct (ethics rules for lawyers) addressing the impact of technology on modern legal practice.

In 2012 the American Bar Association amended Comment 8 to Model Rule of Professional Conduct 1.1 (a lawyer's duty of competence) in response to changes in technology. The Comment now suggests attorneys must understand "the benefits and risks associated with relevant technology.” To date, more than twenty-five states require attorneys to stay abreast of changes in technology relating to law practice.

In this episode, Jim discusses the ethical obligations of attorneys to keep up with changes in legal technology and offers tips on how attorneys can begin to become for "technologically competent."